President of the Republic of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev has been
interviewed by Turkish NTV TV channel.
presents the interview.
- Mr. President, first of all, thank you very much on
behalf of NTV. Thank you for receiving us at this historic time, on
such important days for both the region and Azerbaijan despite your
busy schedule.
- Thank you.
- Mr. President, the first question will be related to
the frontline. What territories have been liberated under
occupation since 27 September? Good news has been coming in the
last two days.
- Yes, the news is coming. It is possible to say that the
Azerbaijani Army is conducting successful operations every day. The
public is also aware about these operations. Our main goal is to
restore our territorial integrity. Therefore, the main goal on the
battlefield is also to liberate strategic heights from the invaders
and take control of large territories.
The statement I made yesterday made the people of Azerbaijan
happy again. Three villages of Fuzuli and five villages of
Khojavand districts have been liberated from the invaders. I must
also say that we already control strategic heights in the northern,
southern and eastern directions.
Our successful operation continues. To date – of course, these
numbers change on a daily basis – about 40, perhaps even more
settlements, cities and villages – have been liberated from the
occupiers. Very soon there will be more good news, great news.
- I think you are close to Khankandi.
- We are currently conducting major operations in the northern
and southern directions. As you know, as a result of a successful
operation, we have liberated the city of Jabrayil from occupation.
Most of the villages of Jabrayil district are already with us. At
the same time, we have liberated many villages of Fuzuli district.
I am sure that more good news will come from Fuzuli district in the
near future. Also, as a result of a successful operation in the
northern direction, the settlement of Sugovushan has been liberated
from the invaders. It is also of strategic importance because the
heights located there allow is the opportunity to control a vast
territory. In addition, there is a very important water reservoir.
Armenia had also masterminded a water terror against us and more
than one hundred thousand hectares of our lands were left without
water. We were forced to drill artesian wells. After the reservoir
in Sugovushan settlement came under our control, water started to
be supplied to a vast territory.
Therefore, we are carrying out the operation gradually and on
the basis of a single plan. All goals have been identified. The
Armenian side must reckon with this reality and stop the
aggression, observe the ceasefire and leave the rest of the land of
its own free will, so that no blood is shed, so that the issue is
resolved peacefully.
- Mr. President, I would like to ask if it is still
possible to talk about a ceasefire? As we can see, Armenia does not
observe the ceasefire. During the attack on Ganja, I was also in
that region. Apparently, Armenia is not going to observe it. Has
this ceasefire reduced the speed of the Azerbaijani army? What can
you say about this?
- You know, we made a huge gesture to the mediators because, as
you know, from the first days we started receiving messages from
various places related to the ceasefire. Naturally, peace has its
own rules and war has its own rules and laws. If someone attacks
you, you must defend your land and your citizens. As you know, the
introduction of a ceasefire is primarily related to humanitarian
issues. Certain work has been done in this direction. We have taken
very important actions to exchange bodies. We have involved the
International Organization of the Red Cross and Red Crescent in
this work. Unfortunately, Armenia, taking advantage of the
ceasefire, capitalizing on it, launched new attacks on us. It
bombed not only the city of Ganja but also our other cities and
villages. This is a war crime, an act of terrorism. Armenia as a
terrorist country has once again shown its face to the whole world,
and on the battlefield too. Following the ceasefire, they wanted to
take this opportunity to launch several attacks on Hadrut. They
tried to regain control over it. However, they could not do it and
lost a lot of manpower and equipment there. Attacks were organized
against us in other directions – in Jabrayil district, in the
southern direction of Jabrayil along the Araz River. All these
attacks, of course, were suppressed. This shows that Armenia is
insincere at the negotiating table too. Therefore, if this dirty
policy continues in Armenia, they will regret it. From the first
hours of these battles, I appealed to them and the Armenian people.
I said: leave these lands in a peaceful way so that blood is not
shed and people do not die. Unfortunately, Armenia does not observe
this. Today, the main culprit for the fact that the Armenian army
is completely defeated on the battlefield is the military-political
leadership of Armenia.
- You also spoke about the importance of Turkey's
participation in the settlement of the Karabakh problem. Yesterday,
after the conversation between Mr. Erdogan and Mr. Putin, Ankara
made a statement on the settlement within the framework of the
Minsk Group and bilateral relations. However, Sergey Lavrov
yesterday objected and said that Turkey and Russia had different
positions on the Karabakh issue. What do you think about this? Why
does Russia object to Turkey's participation in the process that
you support? What would you like to say about this?
- It would be better if you asked them. I would not like to
comment on their statements. We simply have to consider the
existing realities. These realities, the true situation is that no
issue in the region can be resolved without Turkey's participation
today. The history of recent years has already shown this. Someone
may like it, some may not, but this is a fact, a reality. Of
course, Turkey as a neighbor of Azerbaijan, Armenia and another
South Caucasian country, Georgia, plays an active role in this
region. This is the right of Turkey. This has been the case
historically. We know history well.
Therefore, from the first hours of these battles, in order to
move this problem from a military onto a political plane, a
political process, we expressed a very open and precise position:
Turkey must definitely participate in these matters. If this
happens, the fighting will end and the peace process will begin
very soon. I also said that Turkey was already in this process, as
evidenced by yesterday's conversation between Mr. Erdogan and Mr.
Putin. In addition, a few days earlier, there were telephone
conversations between the foreign ministers, defense ministers of
Turkey and Russia. They are discussing the Karabakh issue.
Therefore, our position is that Turkey must be there. The status
is already a technical question. De facto Turkey is already
present. It is already a member of the Minsk Group. Over the course
of 30 years, the Minsk Group has failed to achieve any result and
has not contributed to the implementation of four resolutions of
the United Nations Security Council for these 30 years. This
situation actually led to the freezing of the conflict. Ultimately,
however, the attack on us in July of this year, the sending of an
Armenian sabotage group to Azerbaijan in August and, finally, a
large-scale offensive in September showed that this conflict is not
frozen.
We stick to our position and, of course, hope that this issue
will soon be resolved at the negotiating table. Turkey must and, I
am sure, will play an active role in this issue.
- In the same statement, he said that if the two
countries, Azerbaijan and Armenia, agree, then we can send a
Russian military observation mission to the line of contact, that
is, to the frontline. What is your attitude to this? If such a
military observation mission is created, then which countries
should be included in it? What can you say about this?
- You know, this issue – the introduction of peacekeeping forces
into the region – is enshrined in the fundamental principles. So
the fundamental principles include this too. However, this issue
should be resolved at the final stage of the process. Considering
that the fundamental principles have not been agreed upon and are
just a topic of discussion, I don't know how correct it would be to
express an attitude to this issue.
In addition, this issue was not discussed in detail between
Armenia and Azerbaijan. Therefore, it was not discussed at all who
will be part of the peacekeeping forces, which countries would be
represented and what the composition will be. Therefore, I believe
that in the current circumstances, when the active phase of the
conflict is still ongoing, it is a little too premature to talk
about this. Of course, the position of Azerbaijan in this matter
must and will be taken into account because everyone should know
that the conflict is taking place on Azerbaijani lands now. This is
our land from the point of view of both international law and
historical justice, and it is impossible to send armed forces of
another country to Azerbaijan without the consent of
Azerbaijan.
- This is why I asked. For example, Turkey and Russia
carry out certain cooperation in some parts of Syria. There are
military units and observers are on patrol service. If such a
format is proposed in the future, what can you say about
it?
- I would not like to say anything about this now because I do
not want to get ahead of the events. To resolve this or that issue,
time must be right and the situation must be ripe. We cannot say
when it will happen, we do not know whether it will or will not be
the case. One thing is clear: after the end of the military
confrontation, naturally, certain international efforts will be
needed to ensure peace. What these efforts will consist in, whether
they will be political or will they be proposals in the military
sphere – we are ready to consider this. Of course, the Azerbaijani
population that will return to the liberated territories must live
in peace. It is necessary to ensure their safety. Armenia's
treacherous attack of Ganja from its territory proves that this
terrorist state is capable of doing anything. Therefore, of course,
this issue should be discussed on the international plane. However,
I cannot say anything about when this will happen.
- Mr. President, there are military agreements with
Turkey within a certain framework. How do you view the idea of
stationing a Turkish military base in Azerbaijan within the
framework of these agreements or on the basis of some new
agreements? Do you have such thoughts?
- Until now, there have been no discussions about this within
the framework of bilateral relations. We have a very extensive
framework of legal documents with Turkey. In other words, the
agreements we have signed in many areas remain in force, these
agreements also contain clauses on cooperation and mutual
assistance in the military sphere. This is our right. If such a
situation arises, if there is a very serious threat to Azerbaijan,
then, of course, Turkey is our ally and we can take advantage of
these opportunities. But there were no discussions on the
stationing of a Turkish military base in Azerbaijan. Our
cooperation in the military sphere is strengthening every year.
Last year alone, 10 joint exercises were held. This year, due to
the coronavirus, we had to take a short break. The exercises were
conducted only twice this year. But these exercises also caused a
great deal of anxiety in our region. I believe that there are no
reasons or grounds for concern because these exercises are not
aimed at any country. These exercises are aimed at strengthening
our cooperation in the military sphere, improving the Azerbaijani
army, bringing it closer to the standards of the Turkish army and
studying the positive experience of Turkey in the field of army
building. Since late September, a lot of information has been
published in international media about a Turkish military base.
There is no reason for this. Cooperation between Turkey and
Azerbaijan is so strong and diverse that we are next to each other
anyway. Whether there is a base here or not, we rely on Turkey and
Turkey relies on us.
- You either advocate a negotiated settlement of the
problem or say that you will solve it by military means. Moscow, in
turn, announced yesterday that it does not accept a military
solution. How do you assess this, i.e. if you are told to stop the
operation, will you stop it?
- You know, we have already expressed our position on this issue
several times. I have spoken about this and stick to my opinion.
All the messages we were receiving from everywhere, in fact, not
only during this period but also earlier, were that this issue has
no military solution. We, in turn, did not react ahead of time, so
to speak. If they say so, well, let them say so, this is their
opinion. Our opinion is also that this should be resolved
peacefully, but this should be resolved. However, what did we see?
No result has been achieved over these 30 years. For 30 years,
using this ceasefire regime, Armenia has built powerful engineering
and fortification structures on the occupied lands. Today, thanks
to the professionalism and courage of the Azerbaijani army, we are
breaking through these fortifications. For 30 years, Armenia has
strived not for peace but for keeping these lands under occupation
forever. Because if you strive for peace, then why are you building
these fortifications in Fuzuli, in Jabrayil or in the Aghdam
direction? You build structures to keep these lands under control
forever. So the ceasefire brought the process to this situation.
Then the leadership of Armenia became completely impudent. Notice
what Pashinyan and his defense minister said. The minister of
defense said that they would start a new war with Azerbaijan, a new
war for new lands. This was an open threat to us. Pashinyan said,
'Karabakh is Armenia, full stop'. That is, not a centimeter of land
will be returned to us. How can this conflict be resolved
peacefully in this case? I said that we are now in the process of
resolving this issue by military means. We want this process to end
as soon as possible and then the diplomatic process will begin. So
our approach is to resolve this issue by military-political means.
It is impossible to resolve it only by military means. I accept
that because after the phase of active clashes, the parties should
think about a peace treaty and do this. So there will be political
avenues. Therefore, the military-political path is the most
acceptable. We want to stop the military path but Armenia still
thinks that it can return the lost lands, the lands we have
liberated. Therefore, it regularly attacks us on the
battlefield.
- Mr. President, am I right in understanding that you
will advance at the front until the opposite side sits down at the
negotiating table?
- We will move forward. In addition, they must comply with the
ceasefire. Because it was them who broke it. A ceasefire was
announced at noon. We gave a strict order to all our military units
to comply with the ceasefire and stop firing. It was not easy
though. We stopped at 12 o'clock but they did not. Then, within an
hour or so, we resumed actions in self-defense and liberated
several more villages. Therefore, Armenia must finally understand
that it will not achieve anything this way. They must abide by the
ceasefire. I believe that the leadership of Armenia should make a
new statement in this regard that they are committed to the
ceasefire and are complying with it. Then we will stop too. But, of
course, the process can no longer last for years. After that, we
should be provided with a timetable. During our Moscow meetings, we
did not particularly insist on this because it is very difficult to
agree on this within one day. We understand this. But once the
peace process begins, the first issue on the agenda will be the
timetable for the withdrawal of troops. Specific dates must be
provided. On what days the Armenian armed forces will leave the
rest of the lands to which we will be returning. Otherwise, we will
go, as I said, to the end.
- In other words, it can be understood from this that if
Armenia stops attacks and observes the ceasefire, then the process
of new discussions will begin and the basis will be formed. As far
as we understand, the Madrid principles which were discussed within
the framework of the OSCE Minsk Group in 2007, 2009 and 2012 were
not mentioned during the talks in Moscow. But if I am not mistaken,
the first clause of these principles envisages the withdrawal of
troops from seven districts.
- Yes, right.
- Are these principles still on the agenda or do they
need to be updated?
- No, we keep them on the agenda. I have already stated this. We
are committed to the fundamental principles, called the Madrid
principles because they are in our interests. Armenia has already
stated that it does not accept these principles. According to the
information provided to me, the prime minister of Armenia made a
statement yesterday or the day before that they were unacceptable
for them. So who is disrupting the process of negotiations?
Armenia! Now we are liberating our lands. We are already hoisting
our flag on the mountains that surround our cities, we are hoisting
them on buildings located in our cities, we are on the victory
march. Demonstrating adherence to fundamental principles under
these circumstances requires a lot of political will and
responsibility. As you have already noted, it is indicated there
that five districts are to be returned at the first stage, two more
districts at the second and then the future of Nagorno-Karabakh
will be discussed. Azerbaijani IDPs should return to
Nagorno-Karabakh, including Shusha, because Azerbaijanis accounted
for 98 percent of the population of Shusha. They should return to
Khankandi, and after that the Azerbaijani and Armenian population
should live there together, just like in other parts of Azerbaijan,
in Baku and other cities. Our position is this. The position of
Armenia is to drive the Azerbaijanis out of there, as they have
already done, then not to allow the Azerbaijanis to return, to
consolidate the results of the policy of ethnic cleansing there, to
raze our historical, religious and cultural monuments to the
ground, to erase the cultural heritage of Azerbaijanis, and then to
Armenianize these lands. This is their approach and this is
ours.
- I want to ask you another question. Pashinyan made a
statement yesterday that the Azerbaijani army is advancing from the
north and south, as you said. He said that they had actually
retreated for tactical reasons. What can you say about
this?
- This is another lie of Pashinyan's. You know, a responsible
person shouldn't lie. No-one, especially a politician, especially
the head of the country. It doesn't befit anyone. All his actions,
all his words are a lie – about history, about this conflict or
about the events taking place today. If he does not know this, then
what kind of a commander-in-chief is he? If the real situation is
not reported to him, then he should make a remark to his military
commanders. If he knows everything and lies – and I believe in this
version more - then this is a great shame.
Today, the Azerbaijani army is inflicting crushing blows on the
Armenian army in all directions. I have cited some figures, but
they change on a daily basis. According to the exact data as of
yesterday, we have destroyed 200 Armenian tanks and taken 33 tanks
as trophies – not a single unit of Azerbaijani military equipment
is in the hands of Armenia. A total of 33 tanks in operable
condition are now in the hands of our army. In addition, two S-300
air defense systems have been destroyed, 35 'OSA', 'KRUG', 'KUB'
and other equipment has been destroyed. Thus, the technical
capabilities of the Armenian army have suffered a lot, i.e. they
are coming to naught. We are advancing and liberating new and new
lands every time, and this is a reality. There will be new
statements in the near future. This will weaken them even more. The
Armenian people should also know the truth. We provide the most
accurate information. Therefore, if the Armenian people want to
know the real situation, they should listen to us.
- Mr. President, will the 30-year-old problem be
resolved? I think it will be but I want to ask you. Will this
problem of the occupation, which has been going on since the 1990s,
be resolved this time or will everyone stop at a certain point?
Will a new status quo be established? Will there be a final
settlement? This may be a premature question but what would you
say?
- In my opinion, it is already being resolved. I believe that
international organizations and countries directly involved in this
issue are seeing this, and this is a new reality. We have created
this reality, and this issue is being resolved because the
fundamental principles indicate that five districts are to be
returned to us at the first stage. Of these, most of two districts,
not completely yet but most of them, are already with us. If
Armenia behaves badly again, then I hope that we will have other
districts as well in the near future. Isn't this a solution to the
problem? So we are essentially implementing the fundamental
principles on the battlefield. Was the Minsk Group capable of
achieving this? No, I wasn't! Therefore, I want to say once again
that the solution to this issue is possible by military-political
means. It is currently being done by military means. We want this
period to end as soon as possible, so that a political process
begins on the basis of fundamental principles after that.
The reason for the unresolved status of the issue is primarily
the disrespectful attitude of international organizations for their
own decisions because, as you know, the United Nations Security
Council adopted four resolutions in 1993 requiring an unconditional
and complete withdrawal of Armenian armed forces from our lands,
i.e. without putting forward any conditions. But have they been
fulfilled? They have not! The Minsk Group was established a year
before that, 28 years have passed, has anything happened? No! So it
seemed to us that international organizations are in favor of
preserving the conflict in the state it is in. Let the Azerbaijani
IDPs remain in this status forever. Let Armenia gain a foothold in
the occupied lands. You know, there was an illegal settlement
there. Illegal! This is a war crime. This is contrary to the Geneva
Convention. They resettle Armenians from Syria to Nagorno-Karabakh,
to Shusha, create opportunities for them, give money and already
openly demonstrate this on television. In the international arena
this is recognized as a crime. They want time to pass and the
Azerbaijani people to come to terms with the loss of these lands. A
new generation will grow up that has not seen these lands and will
not want to return there. Azerbaijan will come to terms with this
situation, in parallel there will be resettlement of Armenians from
other countries, the Armenian population there will increase, and
then they will say: 'you know, this is already a reality, so just
accept it'. That was their purpose and, unfortunately, their
patrons helped them with this. We have ruined these treacherous and
mean plans. We have created a new reality. Today, everyone must
agree and come to terms with this reality.
- I want to share one message with you. During the
bombing in Tartar, we entered a shelter. There was a person, an IDP
there. When we were preparing the report, he said that he was no
longer an IDP. He said, I am a free citizen now. He is from
Sugovushan and asked me to convey to you, in case of our meeting,
his respect, love and greetings. As far as we understand, the
balance of power in the region has changed. So there is no status
quo any longer. The balance of power will change even more. What
message would you like to address to the world, to
Turkey?
- First of all, I want to convey my words to this citizen
through your TV. I am glad there are thousands of people who, like
him, speak these words today. They cry with joy, they say that they
are no longer IDPs, that they have finally got rid of this
situation. You know, I get thousands of letters. Reading them, to
be honest, sometimes I can't hold back tears of joy either. There
are so many sincere, warm and proud words in these letters,
messages. Reading these letters, I become even more convinced how
great the Azerbaijani people are. To live for many years in such a
position, to live with hope, the hope that the day will come and
they will return to their homes – this is really a great
dedication. I am very happy that we are all giving this joy of
victory to our people.
I want to say this again. I have already noted that everything
there is destroyed. Inshallah, after the end of this military
clashes, you and all of us – all people will go and see what
atrocities the Armenians have committed there. All cities are
destroyed, the picture is worse than Stalingrad. Houses have been
destroyed, all our property has been plundered, window frames and
doors have been removed. In a word, this is robbery. There is
nothing left. Our soldiers report from Fuzuli villages, send in
material. Fuzuli city is also before our eyes. It is impossible to
find even one building there in good condition. In other words,
they have committed this atrocity. But our IDPs know that we will
restore these cities and villages. We will build houses. They will
return there, to the lands of their ancestors, and will live in
peace and prosperity.
As for the situation in the region, it is changing, of course.
If we look more broadly at the picture of our region changing in
recent years, we will see that there are many innovations.
Previously, there seemed to be some dogmas – these countries are
allies, these are not allies or they are opposed to each other.
Everything has changed now. For example, NATO member Turkey is
currently very fruitfully cooperating with Russia – in Syria, in
Libya, in other places, and, as we have already said, in our
region. This is an innovation. If someone had said this 10 years
ago, perhaps they would not have believed him. At the same time,
the relations between some countries within NATO are not very
sincere. And this is also an innovation. One gets the impression
that there is no agreement. Look at the events related to the
European Union. Who would have thought that Great Britain would
leave the European Union and then a crisis would begin. No-one
would have predicted. So there are no traditional hypotheses any
more. Whatever country adapts to this the fastest will get ahead of
the others.
Our policy has always been pragmatic – to analyze the real state
of affairs correctly and consolidate our interests correctly. To
think about how we can secure our interests, create tactics, make
changes to tactical moves within the framework of a strategic
vision. But along with this, we can't deviate from our principled
position. This policy is bringing us success today. I believe that
Turkey and Azerbaijan are among countries that prepared for the new
world order faster. At the same time, Turkey as a great power on a
global scale plays a very active role in the formation of a new
world order – not only in our region but also in the world.
As for our region, Turkish-Azerbaijani unity is already a
reality and everyone must come to terms with it. Our unity will
grow stronger over the years because the potential of Turkey, the
natural resources of Azerbaijan, transport projects between our
countries, the provision of energy security of Europe through
Turkey and Azerbaijan, as well as the implementation of new
transport projects from Central Asia, Afghanistan through the
territory of Azerbaijan and Turkey, are all innovations. There is a
new transport map. There is a new energy map. I am optimistic about
the future. I am sure that we will achieve our goals. We are very
glad that we have such a fraternal country, a strong state like
Turkey which defends its position, defends its interests, is not
afraid of anyone and moves forward. This increases our strength.
Azerbaijan is Turkey's number one ally and Turkey is Azerbaijan's
number one ally. This is a great asset. These events have further
strengthened our ties.
- Mr. President, my last question is very short. You are
saying that this time you will not stop until the occupied lands
are liberated. Do I understand you correctly?
- Yes, you understand everything correctly. In the sense that
our ultimate goal remains unchanged. The territorial integrity of
Azerbaijan recognized by international organizations and the world
community must be ensured. We are ready to stop on the battlefield.
If Armenia is ready for this and a timetable is presented to us,
then we are ready to stop even tomorrow. But in terms of the
process, we will not stop. We want the military process to already
turn into a political one. If Armenia is ready for this and
international organizations and large countries can convince it of
this, then this will happen even earlier. If not, the Azerbaijani
army will continue its victorious march.
- Mr. President, in the first months of 1993, I was here
on the frontline. In 1994, I met with the late head of state, Mr.
Heydar Aliyev. It seems that this place did not exist in Baku
then.
- Really? You met? Yes, this place was built later.
- And today I am meeting with you. So I have had
meetings with two heads of state. The current situation at the
frontline is completely different from what it was in 1993. On
behalf of NTV and on my own behalf, I express my deep gratitude to
you for receiving us and for answering our questions.
- Thank you. Many thanks to you too. Please pass on my greetings
to the NTV team. In Azerbaijan, Turkish channels were popular even
before, but in the current period their audience has become even
wider. When I turn on the TV in the morning, I also watch Turkish
channels, including NTV. The support and solidarity with us in the
media and in Turkish society these days is a manifestation of true
brotherhood. We saw again that the famous expression of my father
'One nation, two states' is not just an expression, but a reality.
We have created this reality.
You know, there are many countries in the world whose peoples
are close to each other – from the point of view of ethnicity,
religion, culture. But this does not mean at all that there is
close cooperation between these countries, that there are fraternal
relations between them. There are many such examples, and you know
this very well. Our advantage is that the presidents of Turkey and
Azerbaijan, i.e. my dear brother Recep Tayyip Erdogan and myself,
have erected such a solid building on the basis of a common
history, ethnic roots and language, and this will last forever. If
future generations also contribute to this, then this building will
be magnificent – the building of Turkish-Azerbaijani brotherhood.
On behalf of the Azerbaijani people, I express my deep gratitude to
all our brothers, all people living in Turkey. We saw that we are
not alone. As my brother Tayyip Bey has already said, 'Azerbaijan
should always know and knows that Turkey is next to him', and this
gives us strength.
At the same time, I want to reiterate that the main reason that
other countries do not interfere in these matters today are the
statements the distinguished President Recep Tayyip Erdogan made
from the very first hours that Azerbaijan is not alone, that Turkey
is next to Azerbaijan and will be next to us until the end.
Thank you again, and I wish all our brothers in Turkey happiness
and prosperity.
- Thank you very much, Mr. President!
- Thank you!