(MENAFN- Trend News Agency) BAKU, Azerbaijan, August 2. On July 22,
President of the Republic of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev was
interviewed by Euronews TV channel in Shusha. The interview was
broadcast on Euronews on August 1.
trend presents the full text of the interview.
Correspondent: Mr. President Aliyev, thank you
very much for having us here. This region has been the stage of
some of the most violent episodes in the South Caucasus's recent
history. And the tensions haven't really gone away completely since
the 2020 peace deal. To what do you attribute this constant
hostility?
President Ilham Aliyev: Difficult to say. I
thought that after the Second Karabakh War situation will be
different. We were ready for peace and actually waiting for a while
for international players to give us some new suggestions. We
understood that it's a kind of vague. Nobody knows what to do. And
the situation, when we had the declaration signed on the 10th
November 2020, was not actually providing sustainable peace. It
wasn't a peace treaty. It was a declaration. Actually, de facto,
that was a capitulation act by Armenia. Therefore, we started to
put forward some initiatives in order to find the final solution to
our conflicts with Armenia. We made it public and announced that we
need to sign a peace agreement. And then again, it was vague. So
then, we elaborated the principles for peace agreement, which are
very well-known principles of international law like mutual
recognition of territorial integrity, sovereignty, international
borders, delimitation of borders, non-use of force or threat of
force. We put that proposal on the table. So, we are the country,
which suffered 30 years of occupation, and restored justice by
force, we were the authors of a new peace process. I would not say
it is going very smoothly, but we are still optimistic, because we
are now engaged in very active negotiations on the level of foreign
ministers of both countries.
Correspondent: And I was gonna ask you about
that. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you've just returned from
Brussels from another round of peace talks. These peace talks have
been filling many people with hope of lasting peace between Armenia
and Azerbaijan. Are we right to be hopeful considering what came
out of this latest round?
President Ilham Aliyev: Yeah, I think it is
right thing to be hopeful, but I can tell you that peace
negotiations have been held by foreign ministers. Our meetings in
Brussels were organized by the President of European Council. These
meetings actually allow us to touch upon very sensitive issues.
Correspondent: For example?
President Ilham Aliyev: Like future parameters
of the boundaries, because the border between Armenia and
Azerbaijan has not been defined. Because as soon as the Soviet
Union collapsed, we faced this aggression. So, how the border will
look like? What will be the real situation on the ground? What will
be situation with the communications? Because Armenia has
obligation, which is signed as a result of the Second Karabakh War
to allow us access to our exclave Nakhchivan. But still, it is not
happening. So, main concentration on paragraphs of peace treaty is
made by the ministers. Our meetings just create, I think, a good
atmosphere. But if we see a constructive approach from Armenian
side, and most important if they totally put down all their
aspirations to contest our territorial integrity then we can find
the peace solution very soon, maybe even by the end of the
year.
Correspondent: We'll get more into the
negotiations later. But I'm curious to ask you. There've been many
international players attempting to mediate the situation. What
does the EU bring to the negotiating table?
President Ilham Aliyev: Actually, the EU was
not part of the mediation process during the times of occupation.
We had the negotiations since 1992. It was an initiative of
President of the European Council Charles Michel, who invited us
and we supported that. Because we think that taking into account
the level of cooperation between Azerbaijan and EU, and Armenia and
EU, it's natural to be active. Especially when after the Second
Karabakh War, the Minsk Group was no longer functional. Actually,
it is not functioning any longer. So, there should have been some
international institution. I thought that the EU can be the best,
because our relations with the EU are based on mutual respect,
mutual trust and mutual interest. So, this initiative now is
transforming into a very active format of dialogue, because we meet
not only in Brussels, we also meet, for instance, on the sidelines
of the European Political Community. Last time it was in Chișinău.
I think it's important, because we do not allow a situation to
stagnate. Because if it is stagnation, if it's again kind of a
break with them, then we are not guaranteed from any dangerous
scenario.
Correspondent: Do you think that the growing
mediation of the West, the EU, but also the United States has
somewhat antagonized more traditional powerbroker here in the
region, Russia, or the other way around the fact that Russia has
somewhat been bogged down in Ukraine has left some space for
potentially Azerbaijan and Armenia to come to common ground?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, actually, Russia
was a mediator of a ceasefire agreement or declaration of 10
November 2020. It was not the United States or the EU. Our first
meetings with my Armenian colleague were organized by Russia in
Russia. So, after the Russian-Ukrainian war situation has changed.
We started to see that the United States and Europe became more
active. It's not actually a big difference for us, who will lead
the process or who will, to a certain degree, monopolize the
negotiation process. It is important to come to the result.
Whichever actor can produce initiatives that will lead to peace
agreement, we will support it. By the way, negotiations between our
foreign ministers were held in Washington. Now we got an invitation
from Russia to hold a round of negotiations in Russia later this
month, and we agreed. So, if there'll be some other location, of
course, we will agree. It's important for us to come to an
agreement and to have a result. Of course, we understand the
certain geopolitical rivalries, some attempts of some players to be
more active. We can only appreciate if there's a healthy rivalry,
which will lead only to good results.
Correspondent: I understand you have a long
historical and complex relationship with Russia. How would you say
the Russia's influence in the region at the moment?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, it's difficult
for me to say about the region, because the region of the Southern
Caucasus consists of three countries. We can only observe Russia's
interaction with our neighbors in the Southern Caucasus. But as far
as Azerbaijan is concerned, not many things have changed, because
our relations with Russia were already balanced. They were based on
recognition of each other's national interests and of course,
territorial integrity and sovereignty. Russia is a neighbor to
Azerbaijan and a partner as we have a kind of substantial trade
turnover, a lot of projects related to transportation
infrastructure, especially now, at this moment. Projects related to
energy development and cultural segment, of course, are very
important.
Correspondent: You have been striking more
deals, especially with regards to the energy sector, especially,
with the West?
President Ilham Aliyev: Yes, we have. That was
a long time ago when we launched the initiative to build integrated
pipeline system from Baku to Italy. It started to be implemented in
stages. The final stage was implemented something more than two
years ago. It's already for more than two years Azerbaijan became
an important gas supplier to Europe. Of course, situation with
sanctions on Russia created a new dimension, because our energy
resources now are needed more than before. But whatever we do, we
do it based on the plans and contracts, which have been signed many
years ago. It is true that now we have more countries, who are
applying for additional gas from Azerbaijan. We already do it, we
already started. More countries started to get our gas already last
year. This year, it will continue. But again, it's from the point
of view of our relations with Russia, not many things have changed
since Russian-Ukrainian war started.
Correspondent : Can we talk about the situation
here on the ground? Because the International Court of Justice, the
European Court of Human Rights, the US the EU have all demanded
guarantees with regards to the freedom of movement in the Lachin
corridor nearby, citing the danger of effectively potentially
holding a population under siege if that corridor is blocked. What
do you know of what's happening in the Lachin corridor right
now?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, actually, for
more than two years since the Second Karabakh War ended, the
so-called Lachin corridor functioned. It functioned during the
times of occupation with one difference. It was under control of
the Russian peacekeepers, which was part of the trilateral
declaration. There was no disruption and there were no steps from
our side to interfere. In the meantime, situation on the ground was
changing. The reason why representatives of civil society of
Azerbaijan to a certain degree started to control the corridor was
because of the fact that illegal excavation of natural resources in
Karabakh restarted in the beginning of November last year. Because
after the war, it was stopped because it is illegal. These
resources belong to us. Several foreign companies were illegally
exploiting our gold and copper mines. We could not do anything
about during times of occupation. But when the war ended, it was
obvious that this activity should have stopped, and it stopped.
But, then, in November it restarted. Representatives of civil
society asked Russian peacekeepers to allow them to conduct a
monitoring in the mines to see what is happening. We have seen that
iron ore and golden ore was being transported by trucks from
Karabakh to Armenia accompanied by Russian peacekeepers. So, we
were denied the right for access, and that is how our civil society
representatives started to control it. But again, the road was not
closed. It was absolutely free, and the movement was free.
Correspondent: So it was never interrupted,
traffic was never interrupted?
President Ilham Aliyev: No, no!
Correspondent : So, why do you think these
institutions have asked, especially on the part of Azerbaijan?
Because they said you were responsible for the area surrounding it.
So, you should ensure the freedom of movement. Why do you think
they are only targeting you?
President Ilham Aliyev: The International Court
of Justice actually addressed its message to us to communicate with
civil society activists not to disrupt any kind of movement. And we
did it. As soon as we establish the border checkpoint on our border
with Armenia, which is our legitimate right and not contested by
anyone, including the International Court of Justice, we
communicated it through my representative here in Shusha, with NGOs
representatives for them to stop. And they stopped, they left. So,
now freedom of movement is not blocked. Since we established the
border checkpoint on the 23rd of April, there have been more than
2000 residents of Karabakh who easily moved to Armenia and back. On
15th of June, Armenia made another military provocation and wounded
one of our border security guards.
The road was temporarily closed for investigation. But then, it
was reopened. The Red Cross restarted again to transport
medications and evacuate patients who need treatment in Armenia.
But unfortunately, the Red Cross trucks when checked, we found
smuggling goods like cigarettes, iPhones, and gasoline. The Red
Cross admitted that. They communicated with us saying that they do
not bear any responsibility because...
Correspondent: The trucks we're being used by
only drivers...
President Ilham Aliyev: Yes, but these trucks
had their logos, and the drivers had their logos on their uniform.
So that's how again, it was blocked. And we asked from the Red
Cross to stop it and also asked them to work with us more
constructively. Unfortunately, until today, their office in
Karabakh has been subordinated not to Baku office, but to Yerevan
offices. This is not acceptable. Because the whole world recognizes
Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan. Even the Armenian Prime Minister
said many times that“Karabakh is Azerbaijan”. That is our
legitimate request as to why the Red Cross Khankendi office is not
subordinate to Baku office but to Yerevan office.
Correspondent: Would you say that this issue,
the issue of the Lachin corridor and that border control and this
passageway, this crucial passageway, is one of the main obstacles
for peace right now?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, I don't think so.
Because situation on the road Lachin-Khankendi changed on the
ground on 23rd of April, when we established the border checkpoint.
Until that time, we had two and a half years of time to come to
peace agreement. The only stumbling block was that Armenia didn't
want to recognize Karabakh as part of Azerbaijan officially. Yes,
they did it by statements, by oral statements, which is also a
position. But they need to sign the document. So, I don't think
that these two issues are interrelated. Because I hope that peace
negotiations with Armenia will end with successful scenario,
hopefully, in the coming months.
Correspondent: I believe you've already
answered the question I'm gonna ask you now. But I'm going to ask
you anyway, because you're here, and I won't get a chance of asking
many times. Some 5000 people lost their lives in 2020 on both
sides. I was here. I came to the Nagorno-Karabakh and I met many
mothers of fallen Armenian soldiers. I've also witnessed the pain
and a devastation on the other side, on your side through the work
of my colleagues here in Azerbaijan. But I remember speaking to one
mother, in particular who told me she blamed politicians for the
war and for the death of her son. Saying that politicians should
deal with things in a diplomatic way and not fall into the trap of
a war. What would you say your mission is? Is it to win a war or to
bring lasting peace?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, to win a war was a mission of my
life, of my political life, which ended successfully. So, we won
the war, despite many factors, political, despite factors of
long-lasting infrastructure projects on the occupied territories,
which made it very difficult for our military servicemen to break
several defense lines. They had in some parts five, in some parts
seven defense lines full of mines. And also you have notice coming
from Fuzulu that the road climbs up. So, that's how our military
servicemen came here. The road, which you came, the Victory Road,
as I called it later, did not exist. It was the road through which
our military servicemen were moving towards Shusha. They were
climbing these rocky mountains. So, despite these factors, despite
strong political support from many countries, which have a big
Armenian diaspora, we did what was right to do. We restored
justice, and we restored our territorial integrity. We fought on
our land. We didn't fight on the Armenian land and we won. So, that
was a mission number one, which is over. Now we talk about peace
for a country, which suffered thirty years of occupation because
its territory, which was under occupation, is totally ruined.
Shusha was not totally ruined, because there were illegal
settlements in Shusha. They wanted to resettle Armenians from the
Middle East and there have been a couple of thousands of Armenians
living here. That's why, not all the cities have been destroyed.
Fuzuli was totally leveled to ground, Aghdam the same. Almost a
million Azerbaijanis were deprived from their homes. So, despite
all that pain, we did not take revenge. I said we will take revenge
on the battlefield, but as soon as Armenia gave us the dates, when
they will withdraw from all the territories, which I demand it from
the first day of the war, we stopped, and then, we started to talk
about peace. So now, peace is on our agenda. If Armenia wants
peace, we will reach it. Because we do not have any territorial
claims to Armenia. And we don't want them to have any territorial
claims to Azerbaijan. People who live in Karabakh - in area, which
is controlled now temporarily by Russian peacekeepers – they live
in Azerbaijan. They should choose whether to live as citizens of
Azerbaijan as ethnic minority, as any other ethnic minority, which
Azerbaijan is rich of or to leave. So, this is their choice. It is
not because we want them to leave or as Armenia accuses us we
organize ethnic cleansing. No, we give them a choice. How they can
live on our territory being a citizen of either Armenia, without
any legal permission, or a citizen of so-called“Nagorno-Karabakh
republic”, which is not recognized by anyone? So, I think this is a
legitimate approach, which is in line with international practice.
It's in line with practice, which we see in many European
countries, which also fight against separatism. Now we see how
Europe and the West is united to help Ukraine to fight against
separatism. And why in our case our fight against separatism is
treated differently? Why Georgia's approach to separatist regions
is fully understood by Western communities and politicians, and our
legitimate, the same origin desire, to put an end to separatism is
under question? Why Spain does not allow Catalonia to have a
referendum though there are five or six million? They don't have
their own state unlike Armenians, which have a state next door. Why
should we tolerate separatism? We will not.
Correspondent: You have already issued messages
as well of reassurance towards the population saying that they will
be allowed to stay if they want to, and protected and allowed to
live here. But do you have a message today to Armenians maybe
watching us? Not necessarily the government, I know you are in
touch with Prime Minister Pashinyan and you don't necessarily need
our cameras to send him a message. But what about other Armenians
who may be watching us? What is your message to the other side
today?
President Ilham Aliyev: Well, I never thought
about that, because that's the first time in my life I'm asked this
question.
Correspondent: Really?
President Ilham Aliyev: Yes. I think I would
separate the question in two. First, if they listen to what I say,
message to Armenians in Armenia that we want to have peace with
their state, we don't have territorial claims to Armenia though
hundreds of thousands of Azerbaijanis lived in Armenia before the
war were totally ethnically cleansed, and their cultural and
religious heritage was totally destroyed. Nevertheless, we don't
have any territorial claims. We think that Azerbaijanis, who were
deported forcefully from Armenia, have a right to return when
Azerbaijan and Armenia will normalize their relations and establish
diplomatic relations. Another message to them is to clearly realize
the current geopolitical situation and the balance of forces. For
many years, leaders of Armenia were persuading their people that
they have the strongest army in the world, that if the war starts
they will come to Baku and that Azerbaijan will not fight for its
lands, already agreed with occupation. All these narratives were
absolutely false and were nothing more than propaganda. So, the war
destroyed those narratives and not only that. It also destroyed a
lot of ideological columns of the Armenian state. They realized
that they lost the war and most probably it was very painful for
them psychologically. So now, when we say that we want peace, it's
not because we are weak and we are seeking peace. No, they know
that we are much stronger. It's because we want this black page of
our history to be turned down. We don't want another war either
today or ever in the future.
So for Armenian community, I think they should not oppose peace
initiatives of international community. They should understand that
if they don't sign peace agreement with Azerbaijan, situation in
the future will be unpredictable. Geopolitical situation in the
world and in the region is changing as we see very dramatically.
And part of their hopes for their security vanished completely. Now
they're looking for new security guarantors. Who is ready to have a
standoff with Azerbaijan on the battlefield in this area,
especially after what we demonstrated during the war and after we
increased our defense capability after the war? Is there anyone
ready to fight for Armenians against us? I doubt it.
So, also another message, which I already conveyed to the
Armenian government is that in this particular situation for them
the choice is not the best and the very best. For them the choice
is among very bad and acceptable, but acceptable based on common
sense, on international law, and on recognizing the rights of
Azerbaijanis to live on their own land, which they deprived us for
30 years. And for Armenians in Karabakh, I'd like to remind them
that we started contacts with them spontaneously. Actually, it was
mainly people-to-people contacts when we started to build a new
Lachin road, which passed through several villages where Armenian
population live. I was informed that the contacts had been
established between our road construction workers and Armenian
community, and immediately they became almost friends. If in the
first months of the construction, Russian peacekeepers were
providing security for both sides, then they just left. There were
no Russian peacekeepers and people easily communicated without
them. So, it demonstrates that ordinary people, in their majority,
don't have this hatred in their hearts.
And Armenians in Karabakh should not follow their so-called
leaders. These“leaders” were lying to them all the time - current
and previous - before the war, during the war that they were
winning. Even when we took control of Shusha, they were telling
that Shusha was under their control. They knew it very well. They
should not become a hostage of today's clique, which captured power
in Karabakh, and whose main objective is to provide their own
interest.
Here in Shusha, there are free villas built during the times of
occupation. If you're interested, maybe, they can show that to you.
And these villas were built for the leaders of Karabakh Armenians.
They built it for themselves. The city was totally in ruins. What
you see now it's the beginning of our reconstruction process,
including this“Qarabag” hotel, the mayor's office, hotels etc.
They built three villas in the best part of the city for themselves
- those people who today lead this so-called unrecognized republic.
So, the Karabakh Armenians should understand that being part of the
Azerbaijan society with security guarantees, we understand it, with
their rights, including educational, cultural, religious, municipal
rights, they will live normal life. They will stop to be a hostage
of manipulation. And also, they should understand that situation,
which they are in now today, will not change in their favor, if
they continue to ignore us, if they continue to behave like we do
not exist or live in so-called country, which has“president”,
“ministers”,“parliamentarians”. This is all fake. We offer them
normal life. I think if they listen to me, they should understand
and they know that I mean what I say.
Correspondent: President Aliyev, thank you very
much for speaking to Euronews.
President Ilham Aliyev: Thank you.
Following the interview, President Ilham Aliyev informed the
Euronews correspondent about the monuments to well-known figures of
Azerbaijan, Natavan, Bulbul and Uzeyir Hajibeyli, which were shot
by Armenians in Shusha during the occupation.